Movies Worth Seeing
Movies Worth Seeing is a comedy podcast presented by Aussie Michael Pisciuneri that explores and dissects all the best trending films and blockbuster releases. A big movie buff, Michael is an unconventional reviewer of all things movies. This podcast is for anyone sick of watching crappy movies and wants to only watch the best
Movies Worth Seeing
War Without Glory: A Critical Look at "Civil War"
Witness the transformation of war journalists from idealistic truth-seekers to desensitized observers in a world that feeds on the chaos of conflict. Adi Aisha and I delve into the role of media in war, using Kaylee Spaney's character as a vessel to explore the ethical dilemmas faced by those who report from the frontlines. The film's controversial ending serves as a crux for our debate, as we navigate the moral quandaries and the consequences of actions taken in the pursuit of the perfect story. We reflect on how the film's portrayal of these character arcs mirrors a broader societal desensitization, especially in the age of social media.
Concluding with a critique that balances appreciation of the film's artistic merits against the frustrations of missed narrative potential, our dialogue is an invite to listeners to consider their own stance. The episode is not just a review; it's a contemplation of what "Civil War" achieves in its depiction of the human condition amidst the backdrop of an unending civil strife. We share our varied takeaways, rate the film, and extend the conversation to you, urging you to join in and share how the movie resonates with your perceptions of war, journalism, and the blurred lines between art and reality.
Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of Movies Worth Seeing Today's episode, I'm again joined by regular mainstay. Well, I tried to get rid of him, but he keeps coming back, like that dog that just keeps coming back.
Speaker 2:Stop throwing the stick.
Speaker 1:I keep throwing the stick and he brings it back. Throwing the stick, I keep throwing the stick and he brings it back. Now I'm joined by Adi Aisha for another review today, today's episode. Look, we're going to do spoilers because it's difficult. I feel like this movie is something that we could do a review in five minutes if we don't talk about spoilers. Civil War Adi made the point to tell me nothing about this, said watch this with nothing, don't look up trailers, nothing. And are you happy? You did that? You know what? Yeah, because there was a lot of mystery going into this, had no idea what to expect, or I expected a war film. This kind of is a war film, but it's also. The soldiers are not the main characters and I fucking love that.
Speaker 2:You know what I was actually thinking. We always see a movie where we follow the protagonist and they're the hero. Let's all the marvel movies. Every other movie it's oh, you're the protagonist. The whole story goes about is revolving around you. Right, you're superman, but how about? And then the whole story goes about is revolving around you. Right, you're superman, but how about? And then the whole story is about superman, right, but how about? We're doing about the accountant has to deal with all the fucking shit that superman leaves behind, because everything is broken and the accountant or the insurer has to deal with all that stuff. But now we're watching like a war movie, where it's not about the soldiers, it's not about the president, it's not about anybody of significance, it's about the common man, like the average person, almost like a civilian exactly.
Speaker 2:But then the war journalists right, and I think that's beautiful because you get the information that they are given real time. And that's the girls. What's her name again? Kirsten Dunst. No, the young girl Forgot. You get the young girl's perspective of the whole war.
Speaker 1:Like she has no information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she has no information. She doesn't know any of the background of things oh, probably a little bit more than we do, but she doesn't know as much of the background as the other characters do, and she only learns what the other characters tell her, and so do we yeah, but if you're living in this political climate where there's this civil war going on, wouldn't you have some kind of ideas, opinions that you would express to the other journalists? I'd say the movie is not about that. The movie is about the chaos, See.
Speaker 1:but that's the thing that pisses me off about this. So watching Civil War, we took my mum to watch it.
Speaker 2:Great choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I told him not to I hadn't taken my mum to the movies in a long time and I was like, oh, let's go to the movies. Ooh, big mistake. My mum is like a very traditional movie watcher. She likes a point like a three act structure and she loves movies with strong hero, strong villain and lots of context. She wants to know everything going on. This movie establishes that there's a civil war, and that's it. The president is locked up in the White House trying to protect himself. These journalists are trying to get an interview with him. That's it. We don't know what started the civil war. We don't know what policies or why America or why Texas of places is teaming up with California. No one says anything. That's leaning on left or right politically, which I in a sense is a smart idea because it doesn't alienate the audience and cause a divide. But at the same time it almost becomes the movie becomes like an empty vessel where you're like what's the point of this?
Speaker 2:And I know what you're what is the point of war? All war is pointless. That's what I love about the movie it gives you that same experience. It leaves you with images you didn't expect to see on a big screen like that. It's scarring, that kind of footage that you're shown and there's so much going on that you just get lost. You don't know who's on what team and when you're trying to survive, it just doesn't matter anymore. And that's the experience you have in war, right, not that I would know, but Back in NAMM.
Speaker 1:When I was in.
Speaker 2:NAMM yeah, no, back in NAMM. You don't know what the fuck is going on. And that's the beautiful thing, that's the experience this movie is giving you and that's what I loved about it. I get that. It's just, and I understand. It pisses you off as well at the same time.
Speaker 1:I understand why it's doing that. Like I said, clever thing to do because you're not going to have whinging from either side, all right. Also really good in that it creates this mystery the whole time. Where you're, you're wondering who's right, who's wrong. There is no right, no wrong. And there is a scene that clearly, even practically just batters you over the head and says, clearly, even practically just batters you over the head and says it doesn't really matter. This is the story. People are killing other people, these people are trying to shoot us, we're trying to shoot them. That's all it comes down to. But as a movie watcher, I do feel empty afterwards, and just you saying the movie's point is to make you feel that way doesn't make me feel any better. It just keeps me feeling that same way. I wish there was just like this one conversation or one kind of thing that stood out Like. There's one scene in particular, getting into spoilers, where Jesse Plymouth who is only Plymouth, and this Plymouth, plymouth, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny that you're correcting me on English. How often does that happen?
Speaker 2:All the fucking time, guys. All the fucking time Bullshit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that dude's great at playing a dick like a real fucking sadistic guy. He's great at that. His scene stands out because it's the only time where you see one character have a very distinct kind of viewpoint.
Speaker 2:It's a horrible viewpoint. It's the only time in a movie where it's clear who is right from wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because this character is this over-the-top kind of extreme racist who's just deciding to kill people.
Speaker 2:But who is he with? Is he with the western forces or is he with the president? Yeah, we don't get exactly. That's what I'm talking about. You know who's right from wrong, but you don't know which side is right and which side is wrong. Okay, so there is. It is given that the president is wrong and the western forces are right, but everything that happens in between you don't.
Speaker 1:You can't separate it yeah, but I just I think that if there was a civil war going on, you're on this road trip with these journalists. They're trying to get an interview with the president, like when they talk about what they're going to ask him, and they have a scene where they're like thinking about what they're going to ask him, but then it just becomes meaningless. They have that scene in the car, yeah, when they're like thinking about what they're going to ask him, but then it just becomes meaningless.
Speaker 2:They have that scene in the car, yeah, where they're talking about exactly what they're going to ask him, but you never get a what they're.
Speaker 1:It just feels weird if we made a movie where there's like in fallout, let's say, two characters are set in the Fallout universe. It's fucking amazing. I love the show. Imagine if you never found out any answers about why the world has become like that. You take out that whole story of the show. Wouldn't you feel like-.
Speaker 2:It's a different structure, it's a different story. It's With Fallout, for example, it's important for the main character to learn, for Lucy right McLean to learn what happened, because that causes the divide between her and without spoiling it. The other characters just saying yeah, it creates a divide between her and the other characters. That makes it vital, which is going to be crucial for the second season. Right, that is the story. She needs to know why In Civil War, you don't need to know why, you just need to know it's fucked up. That's it.
Speaker 1:There was plenty of fucked up scenes in this, for sure. Disturbing scenes, lots of scenes. There's reasons why I wouldn't want to watch this again and I'm surprised you wanted to watch it a second time.
Speaker 2:I loved it a second time, even more than the first. There's so many little things that I missed and I watched reviews and I watched summaries and recaps about it and I went to watch it again. I was like, oh my God, I don't know how I missed all these little bits. It's actually really interesting, just little lines. For example, kirsten dunst's lee says something along the lines of I went to the intifada and went to all these wars. I survived all of that to tell home, to bring it home, to tell them not to repeat this at home as a warning, and it happens at home. And then there's another line, that which is like the dark irony of it, right. And then there's another line saying, once the president, once washington is down, they're gonna turn on each other. Washington is down. At the end dc, I should say, not to say washington dc.
Speaker 2:The president is down the white house is down. That's the end. Dc, I should say, not the state Washington DC. The president is down, the White House is down. That's the end of the movie. It's not the end of the war. That's the beautiful thing. It's not about the war. It's not about the political aspect of the war, it's about how the other monsters it's disguised as being about war to hook people in.
Speaker 1:There's going to be like action and like explosions and this shit. Oh, there are, there is, but everything's got this realistic grit to it. It's pretty much what you would expect an A24 produced movie to be. Like a big budget A24 movie, they're covering an epic kind of setting or premise, like a civil war in america. They still manage to keep things grounded and those small pockets, those stops along the way on the road trip, are more important than the big budget explosion fest. At the end this film still has that artsy vibe to it while also having the mainstream appeal. But the interesting thing is, like when you watch it and the fact that it doesn't pick a side and that it's just that like the stuff you were talking about, like having that empty feeling and stuff like that, that's such an arthouse thing to do. Like that's not the point. The point is the complete opposite. You just didn't get it, man.
Speaker 2:It's very arthouse style shit. Okay, I get that, I wouldn't. Yeah, look, it's not a typical Hollywood structure movie. It's not. This one is Anyway. No, it's not a typical Hollywood structure movie. What you expect with any other big budget movie? Absolutely not. And I understand you think it's art housey and artsy kind of stuff, giving that emotional experience. Because, yeah, it is about creating an emotional experience and not just beginning, middle climax and hero wins. It's. It's more about the message than the explosions and the visual storytelling. It's more about the message of the whole movie.
Speaker 2:A24 uses this movie as a message, as the messenger of a message, to tell the audience, to give a warning or to educate the audience. And, yeah, you can call it artsy or arthouse. It's just different from any other movie where it's just for entertainment. This is not just for entertainment. This is like a bit of a wake-up call. It's get your head out of your fucking ass. This is reality. It sure is set in the near future and it seems so far away, but this is reality.
Speaker 2:They're saying like cool, the civil war. But hey, lee, you have been to intifada and you that great picture from the intifada. And she's like, yeah, and she's up until the very end of this movie, she's more, uh, traumatized by the intifada than she is by this civil war. Yeah, the civil war is horrible, but it's implied that the intifada was way worse. Until the end, until she loses someone close to her, but that's when it becomes personal for her. A24 is delivering a message with this movie and not just entertainment, and I love that. I love it because it was also very it's also very entertaining. You're hooked in from the very first moment. It's just not a very positive entertainment, but it is hooking.
Speaker 1:It's tough to watch, at times shocking, disturbing. There's imagery in this that is disturbing and sometimes the most disturbing part of it is how the characters are not disturbed by the imagery, the fact that these people, these journalists, are desensitized to the violence and the horror of war because they're just these objective people that are just meant to be there and take the photos and not ask questions, not fight or get involved. There was a part in this where I was like, oh, that's some interesting irony where they stop at this town, that's normal, like everyone's just acting like nothing's happening, and they go into a store and they're like, hey, you guys know that there's a civil war going on. And the shopkeepers, yeah, we watch it on the news, but we don't want to get involved. And the journalist is looking at her perplexed, like you don't want to get involved. The journalist is looking at her perplexed, like you don't want to get involved.
Speaker 1:In my mind, I was like you don't want to get involved, eva, to a degree You're not a soldier, yes, you're a journalist, but are you really contributing? You've almost lost your humanity to a degree by just being this objective observer. Sometimes someone's on the verge of dying, being tortured In front of you instead of you like being like I'm going to save that person, you think to yourself I'm going to take a photo because the photo is going to be worth more. Or your friend dies and you take a photo of them Because you're like that's going to be valuable.
Speaker 2:Because it's a casualty of war. They're not doing it for the money, they're doing it for the message, but I don't get that from it.
Speaker 1:I don't learn enough about these characters to know that we don't learn enough about what's driving them to the point where I said to you like, why the why is it so important to get this interview with the president? Like they know that some journalist is going to get that interview, they're all racing against time to get this interview. Is it because they know that the soldiers are going to crash the white house and kill him without thinking about asking him any questions? Or is it because they want to be the first ones to get this interview to be remembered in history as the journalist that got the interview? You never get a sense of oh, I did, I took this photo from this war and it managed to cause this positive effect. So that's what I'm all about. I'm not about the money or anything like that. Like we don't get to see any of that stuff so that we can better understand these characters.
Speaker 2:That's a good question. That is indeed something I didn't figure out. But a second time watching it either, it's like why do they specifically want to speak to the president? It's yeah, it's like you're asking an actor why do you want to get to Hollywood?
Speaker 1:You want to get big.
Speaker 2:You want to make it Like Lee has that and Defy the Famous Picture made her big.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a good point bringing up, like when you ask fittingly someone like why? When you ask fittingly someone like why do you want to be an actor, and they're like I just love being a storyteller man, and there's people that say that and you're like that's a crock of shit.
Speaker 2:You just want to get famous. You want money and make us famous. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's what I felt. When these guys say certain things about what it means to be a journalist and the sacrifices and that Like why it just didn't sit right. There's this ambiguity where you're not 100% sure, and maybe that's the point, to have that ambiguity of not 100 hundred percent knowing why they really want to do this. But the young girl played by Kaylee Spaney, which she does an amazing job of coming across as this preppy, enthusiastic, wide-eyed girl that's just entered this world and everything looks so colourful and bright to me because I haven't gotten into the trenches yet and watching her whole world come crashing down and this reality hit her. That was interesting to watch and seeing her character change by the end of it. But she said she wants to be like kirsten dunst's character. Why?
Speaker 2:because she's the great lee is kirsten dunst's. Lee is famous. She's a great journalist. She's well known for her, all her quote-unquote adventures, like all the wars, the survivals she's gone through. Yeah, she's an idol. She's someone that achieved so much in that field, so she aspires to be like me and make that difference as well. I would say I think like it does bring up.
Speaker 1:One thing that I did really enjoy was Kirsten Dunst does a great job of getting across someone who's seen some shit, been through some stuff, and just from looking at her you're like yeah, she's been through some shit. Definitely this is a journalist who's been to multiple wars. All these controversial moments there's no happiness or joy in that.
Speaker 1:She's disconnected and there's moments, really disturbing moments, that happen in this where you're like, oh my god, that's how she's gonna react to something like that, that's how she's gonna react to people dying around her. And there were moments where it was hard to like her, but by the end, she does something where I don't know. I think people are really divided on the way it comes to an end. What do you mean? Well, there's moments in this where a journalist knows they're in a really dangerous spot, but it becomes oh, I have to get the best shot. Though why do you have to get the best shot? That's not about telling the truth, getting the truth out there. Why is it that important? And then, in my mind, I'm like it has to be like money or ego or something like that. It can't be this noble truth of getting the message out there. It can't be this noble truth of getting the message out there. So then, when you see this young girl, jessie, when you see Jessie put herself in such an obvious line of fire.
Speaker 2:She's trying to mimic Lee and fails Because Lee did it. And then, like a minute later, she's going to copy exactly what he does and she does it, and then she just doesn't do it.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and Lee decides she's going to save her. And as she's saving her, she's getting bullets pumped into her and Jesse decides to take photos of her while she's falling.
Speaker 2:That was set up from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's fucked up it is fucked up. Someone's dying in front of you and you're going to take photos. What are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2:There's nothing you can do about it. The only thing she can do is make a photo. And she swore from the beginning I'm never going to freeze up again. After she froze up, not taking photos of those two guys hanging, she's like I'm never gonna freeze up again. And then she had a conversation with lee if I die, will you make photos of me? And lee says what do you think meaning? Yes, and then at the end lee dies and she's like okay, I'm, the only thing I can do is make photos. That's what I'm here for. I'm gonna do what I said I was going to do yeah, but how about try and save her?
Speaker 2:how can you save her?
Speaker 1:get her out of the line of fire, get the like. The way it's done and presented makes it seem like there's so obviously an opportunity to get out of the line of fire, but it's no. I'm just gonna take a photo instead. It feels like the equivalent to someone, some social media influencer, seeing someone dying in front of them and being like I'm going to live stream instead of that's reality, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and maybe that is the point, because that was what I kept thinking the film was alluding to is the desensitization of people with social media, in that when horrible events happen, like a civil war and stuff like that, there's going to be more people thinking about oh, how do I get the most likes and social media engagement, rather than being like, how do I defend my home? Or like, how do I save the people I love? How do I defend my team, help my team to victory, that kind of thing, how do I play my part in the war? There's going to be more of people just being like oh, there's a dead body. I'm gonna take a photo of that well, let's see how many likes I get for this decapitated person on.
Speaker 2:That said, I would say last thing, before we should finalize it and go into ratings. What I would say is that for everybody, it's very clear what their role is in this war. Right, everybody has a very clear role. Everybody assumes their own role of what they're going to do in this war. You've got the soldiers they're shooting. They're not going to do anything else but fighting for their country, fighting for their part right, whichever part they're shooting. They're not going to do anything else but fighting for their country, fighting for their part, right, whichever part they're on.
Speaker 2:Um, you have the people who are surviving and protecting their own town. You have the other guys who are protecting their own goods right, and they will fight against their old friends from school if it means I'm going to protect my own goods, no matter what. And then you have the journalists who are going to report, no matter what, and everybody's like in their own affection, in their own little lane of this is my purpose, this is what I'm going to do, and it's very strict because when you step out of it, you're guaranteed to die. That that explains exactly why they would make photos of people dying and not helping. Yeah, yeah, there's a set role Exactly, and everybody assumes their own role. It's not like in Divergent, where you get it assigned. It's like they assume their own role and it's the moment when Sammy dies Spoiler. It's the moment when Sammy dies and Lee makes a photo of it and deletes it afterwards is the moment she decides I'm going to step out of my lane great moment, by the way.
Speaker 1:Great love that moment.
Speaker 2:But that moment is then the pivotal moment for lee to decide inside I'm going to step out of my lane, and she does. From that moment on, she stopped taking photos. Up until the very end, until they're in the presidential house, she stopped making photos. Anxiety started kicking in. She did something that she hasn't done in years, which is to step out of a lane and do something humane, something that'd be like okay, it makes common sense, rather than to just like a tiktok or be like filming yourself, filming yourself while someone is dying, or photographing someone that's dying. Then right, yeah, and she throws herself in the line of fire to protect jesse, and that's instantly.
Speaker 1:It's rewarded by death, by lead in the back or by her having an honorable death where she can say my death meant more than my life in a way, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then what is the immediate result of that? She's dying. Jesse, in her lane, reports. She makes photos. Nobody is is is crying over a death. In that moment, everybody's in battle mode. We're in our lane, we've got to go. We've got to go, we've got to go. Joel grabs her by the shoulder and tells her to get up. We're going. The president's right there. We either can mourn over Lee right now or we can go and do what we traveled for, which is talk to the president, and then they go to see the president.
Speaker 1:And then the best part is, after all this build-up, they finally get to see the president, and it's like we just need one quote.
Speaker 2:And what does the president say please don't kill me, don't let them kill me, don't let them kill me. He says don't let them kill me.
Speaker 1:All right, boys, you can shoot him now it's such a simpsons episode like it just I I found it really funny, like in a dark way, that like all this build up and then it's just like that all right, just kill him. Yeah, all right, we're done.
Speaker 2:We're done, wrap it up everyone, let's go home. I still want to give one more ode to jesse plements. Just amazing dude, everyone's giving him. Yeah, but he was just a massive standout what are you gonna do about it?
Speaker 1:because in that small amount of time, we clearly knew his character. We knew more about his character than we did about all these other journalists that we followed. For, like, when we meet that older guy, that older journalist, he's just typical like Denny Glover from Lethal Weapon man I'm getting too old for this shit. Talking about Sammy, yeah, sammy. He's just like I'm getting too old for this shit. I shouldn't be doing this. Man, ah man, I'm going to fucking die. And we all know he's going to die. We just don't know when exactly. But it's abundantly clear that this dude is just there to be killed off. So when his death comes, we weren't really shocked by it at all. It was more like what's done with his death after? Yeah, he was great. The guy is like a natural at playing a piece of shit Like Breaking Bad, oh he. Of shit Like Breaking Bad, oh he was so good in Breaking Bad yeah.
Speaker 1:He's always this character that he just manages to get this rage out of you. Testament to him that he's able to do that, because I think nowadays it's really hard for actors to play these like vile, horrible characters and make it believable without it becoming this over-the-top marvel style caricature where it's a generic villain with a generic plot. He does it just with pure stillness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his stillness is what makes it more shocking, yeah, and how he can just so quickly just shoot people without any remorse or hesitation and everyone else is reacting to it like is that really what just happened? I remember one of the times when he shot someone I was like did he really just shoot someone? Did he shoot that guy Like? I had to take a moment and be like holy shit, that guy's dead, fuck.
Speaker 2:Any one specific moment that you're like, wow, this was amazing or wow, this is horrible.
Speaker 1:I think my favourite part of the movie was Jesse Plemons' scene because it was clear good versus evil In a very short period of time. There was no muck about it. It led to a lot of action and there was just a lot of horrifying implications without anything being said. We see this pit with all these dead bodies and your first thought is did they kill all these people? And the mystery around it not being solved of like, why were they killing people? What did their views have to do with any of this? Why did this have to happen? You don't know. Also, seeing the character Sammy like step in and save them, was that was like the first moment where I'm like, oh, they're not completely like lacking humanity. There's still some life left in them. Because you've got this old guy who's I know this is gonna get me killed, but shit, I'm gonna do anyway. So he goes in and saves them. But you've also got the other journalists. They could have just left her. They could have. They could have easily left her driven off and been like we're not dealing with this. Shit, she's an idiot for going in the other car.
Speaker 1:That scene, actually that scene I fucking hate that scene. I hate that scene Of crossing cars. I hate the scene where the journalists swap cars while driving because it felt pointless to me. I guess you could argue that it gets across the thrill-seeking nature behind the journalists, which would play into another harsh reality. A harsh truth is that the journalists just love the adrenaline of being in these situations. It's not really about and that's what you got from these two journalists that were driving in a separate car but the justification for why they swap cars just didn't make sense to me. Why they decided to do it while driving. It just felt really dumb and out of place.
Speaker 2:It just made me think these characters are stupid. Yeah, it's not like you're saying. I think it's indeed about them trying to seek the thrill of the situation of the moment. Don't worry about Jessie. Jessie's copying everything she sees. She's a newborn, she's a baby. She learns by copying, by imitating others. It's the other journalist, the Chinese journalist, that crosses the car and he's just like an adrenaline junkie, so I'm not surprised he would do it, and that justifies for Jesse to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get him doing it. Just based on the small amount of time we spend with him, we learn about him. Yeah, he's a typical kind of thrill seeker. You don't really get the sense that there's much more to the guy with journalism other than the thrill of yeah, yeah, so you don't really admire him or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Jessie's just imitating. She's like I want some of that thrill, something that's dangerous not too dangerous. Where I'm in a line of fire.
Speaker 1:I guess it does make sense, but it just felt like a cheap way to get Jessie in another car away from the main character so that they would then have to save her.
Speaker 1:That's what it felt like to me. It took me out of it where I go. They just need to get Jessie in a situation where she's going to be shot or killed so that they have to step in and save her. It felt more like I understand why they're doing this from a storytelling point of view rather than, oh, like that totally makes sense and my brain can just let that go. It just was always at the back of my mind of like why did that have to happen that way? I that just seemed dumb and yeah, even as you were talking about and you're like, what scene annoyed you or pissed you off, I'm like, yeah, love what it got to, but how we got there did not like Zero to five stars.
Speaker 2:What would you give it? I'd give it.
Speaker 1:It's so well made and it looks so great and the sound design is amazing and there are some great moments with these actors. But I don't know. We were listening to one movie reviewer say there's almost like this hollow vehicle, and since I heard that I can't let it go, I'm like, yeah, it does feel that way. You don't get a satisfying feeling by the end of this, so it's hard for me to give it a high rating. I'd say three and a half. The performances are great, like all the ingredients are there for a great movie. But, man, this could have been something so much more. It could have had something so much more memorable. Oh, yeah, there's this one good scene, but yeah, the rest of it's great looking movie, great cinematography.
Speaker 1:I love the way it portrays war in a realistic, gritty way and gets across the intensity of reaching a point where you actually want to leave the scene. You're I'm done with this thing. Can we please get out of here? Almost like you're feeling that discomfort that the journalists would feel from being in this situation. So that's great, but just as a story, there's nothing for me to latch on to. There's no characters I can, even as we talk about them, I'm like can barely remember anything about these characters. This feels like a movie that's too scared to go the full mile. Yeah, you almost sense. Oh, they could have went way further with that.
Speaker 2:They went pretty far, but you feel they can go further than that. If you've taken that step. Take the step.
Speaker 1:If you're going to go with this premise, if you're going to do this, fucking go all out. And I just, ah, it's so weird, it's so hard to describe it's. It has this controversial premise, but it just doesn't do anything really that memorable with it, other than like the one scene that everyone talks about with jesse plummins, which is all most reviewers talk about is that scene. But you don't get that with anyone else.
Speaker 2:I think the reason why his scenes start so much is because you're so confused with who is on the right side and who's on the wrong side, because that's how we want to label everybody, and we finally get to one point where we just know and we just really want him to die. Yeah, he's the first scene where we actually know who's right and who's wrong. I think that's the satisfying feeling when you watch this scene. It's because it's the one scene that stands out on morality. I'm going to give it a four and a half stars. You don't seem surprised. You've seen the movie twice. Yeah, and I would watch it a third time.
Speaker 1:Because I loved it and the way you've talked about it. Yeah, I can see why you give it four and a half. Okay, what's the good?
Speaker 2:The good is, this movie is not afraid to set the message as the most important and prominent attribute of the movie. Not the story, but the message. It's like an exposition of a civil war, of how it would work out in today's era. It's not about the life story of this, it's not a story about the characters. It's a story about the situation. A story about the situation, the circumstance that they find themselves in, and it's not about the past or the future. It's about what's happening right now, the chaos you're finding yourself in and the way you're trying to work yourself out of it. That's what this movie is about, and I think it did an excellent job in leaving the audience confused, unsatisfied, with a good running start and an abrupt finish, very abrupt. I don't like the finish as much.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the three moments I would say that take the fifth star off from my rating. Why it's not a classic the three moments? I would say that take the fifth star off from my rating. Why it's not a classic the three moments? I would say that. Take the fifth star off is the death of Lee. It's because she pushes Jesse to the ground and then in a line of fire and then remains standing to catch all the bullets. No, you do a freaking jump, grab him and just drop together to the ground. That's what anybody would do, so that's dumb the more I think about it, though.
Speaker 1:What if lee just had given up and reached the point where she just wants to die because she's?
Speaker 2:I don't want to keep doing this anymore that's the only justification I could see for it, but I I don't like it because it doesn't make sense yeah, like I didn't like it more so because of the way jesse reacts.
Speaker 1:That's funny that you don't like it because it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I didn't like it more so because of the way Jesse reacts. That's funny that you don't like it because of the way Lee reacts to her own death.
Speaker 2:I love the way Jesse reacts. I love the way Jesse reacts because that's exactly. But that reaction has been set up from the beginning. It has to set up with the fuel station.
Speaker 2:I'm never going to freeze up again. It has a second set up at the, at the helicopter, where you make a photo of me when I die and Lee says what do you think? Of course I fucking would. And then this is then the payoff Jesse makes a photo of Lee dying. That's perfectly set up and paid off. I understand you don't like it because it doesn't make sense, because he would try to help someone. That's the most rational thing, he off. I understand you don't like it because it doesn't make sense, because you would try to help someone.
Speaker 1:That's the most rational thing you would do, but these people live for the thrill. That's a different mentality. Yeah, and maybe that is the point is that I can't understand their circumstances, because I've never been in those circumstances where I'm totally desensitized to being in a war and just taking photos of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the second in a war and just taking photos of it. Yeah, the second bit I didn't, I wasn't a big fan of it is the death of sammy. Where did the bullet come from? How did he get shot? Like the shot is behind aluminium. There's no, there's no way for the car to the bullet to go in. The bullet came from behind but he got shot from the front. And if he got shot from the front and if he got shot from the front, it would have gone through the window. But the gun was lower than the window and the window was intact and it would not have gone through the hood or the dashboard or otherwise. It would have gone through the wheel or through the engine. So that could have worked. It's like where did the bullet come from? That was very weird. He should have been shot in the shoulder, with a broken through the side window maybe, but he had to die because he's an old guy who's passed his prime.
Speaker 2:No, he had to die because that was part of Jessie's arc. She needed her friend to die for her to have the lesson that she needs to get out of her lane. You mean Lee, sorry, lee.
Speaker 1:He needed to die. That brings up a good point right, we knew his death was coming from a mile away. Yeah, as soon as we know that he's gone with them, we're like he's definitely the one dying.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, but then when.
Speaker 1:and then this story point comes up where we're like, oh that's weird that they swapped cars. But it has to get to that point where then Jesse's in danger, so that Sammy can save them and get shot, saving them, because he's, ironically, the one who still has his humanity left yeah, even though he's been in the journalism world the longest and probably seen the worst of the worst. All great stuff, but you don't like the way it was presented because it doesn't make sense I don't mind him dying like.
Speaker 2:His death makes perfect sense. He needed to die for the other story to work, because him dying sets up again for lee said right. His dad sets up the death of lee later on because she decides to become be more like sammy and put herself in the death of Lee later on, because she decides to be more like Sammy and put herself in the line of fire for the safety of others, not just to report, but just how he died. Like he could have been shot in a different place with a broken window. That would have made sense. It's just that the bullet appeared out of nowhere, from an angle. There was no gun coming from.
Speaker 2:Maybe he should have just done like a slow-mo and the third bit that I was really weird, which was a very artsy moment, is right after that they were driving through like a forest fire and you had that them sitting in a car at night and all the little flames coming by the car and it's just like do you remember the scene?
Speaker 1:it's yeah, I actually liked that no, it looks beautiful, but it's.
Speaker 2:The rhythm of it is so different. It felt out of place. It felt completely out of place.
Speaker 1:It felt completely out of place. I like what it represented 100%. Even in this chaos, there's some kind of weird beauty.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, 100%, I get it. Like I get why that cutscene was there, but just the rhythm of it, the color of it, it came out of nowhere and it just felt out of place to me. Oh, it was. It just felt out of place to me okay, it just felt out of place.
Speaker 2:Just seeing it now again in the trailer that we just watched, just I see it again it's like, oh yeah, I remember that it just it's weird. Yeah, there's beauty and they're all suffering in the car because the guy in the back is dying and sammy is dying with a bullet wound or he's already dead, and they're driving there and they're all crying and they're all screaming and there's so much beauty outside. It's a beautiful message. Just the slow motion of it, it was just very odd.
Speaker 1:So it was more the editing. Is that where you're getting?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I suppose. So We've seen it twice. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you would blame the editing team for it, but it just felt like that's that cut scene. As beautiful as beautiful as it is and the message is clear as it is it just felt out of place. It should have been slightly different. Like it just cut to that scene and cut out of it real quick. It was just a bit odd. Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 1:I was disappointed by after they shoot the president. It would have been great if they, like all, stood on the president's dead body and took a photo like all smiling, like we did it. I would have loved that. I would have pissed myself laughing. If, after all that, they just go full parody, oh God, just to give some levity to the audience as we leave the theater. So we don't feel like oh my God, I just want to fucking.
Speaker 2:I just hate my life after watching that movie.
Speaker 1:That was depressing as fuck.
Speaker 2:That's our review. Very depressing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the funny thing about this is the context in which we watched. It was like oh, it's my birthday, let's go out and watch a feel-good romp. And Addy's like yeah, let's watch.
Speaker 2:Civil War. I'm like, look, there was nothing else available that day and he really wanted to go to the cinema and his mom wanted to see it too. So I was like, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was either Kung Fu Panda 4 or Civil Wars. Yeah, you made the right choice. Anyway, you can make the right choice by sharing and subscribing to this video and comment below did you like Civil War or you didn't like Civil War? What were some of your thoughts?
Speaker 2:One to five stars. One to five stars. Comment below what you would give it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.